Dialogic presentation between Hanns Holger Rutz and Nayarí Castillo on their intermedia piece "Aleatorium" ( https://www.sciss.de/texts/med_aleatorium.html ), presented in September and October 2021 during festival Glowing Globe - Artificial Art Alienated. Talk at CIM - Center for Innovative Media from 23.09.2021. For the full symposium recording, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUsN-_srJDk . For the festival, see https://cim.apuri.hr/en/exhibitions/glowing-globe-2021-artifical-art-alienated/